Aaron Gera on The Sales Scoop, Founder @ AG Finance Hub

Automated Transcript

Alastair Cole 0:00

Hello, good afternoon, and welcome to The Sales Scoop. This is a weekly live show for founders and C level executives of technology businesses who want to accelerate their sales. I'm Alastair Cole. I have a degree in Artificial Intelligence, and two decades experience building, and selling technology platforms, and delighted to say that I'm going to be joined today by Aaron Gera, who is the co-founder, or one of the co-founders of the AG Finance and Technology Group. Hi, Aaron, hi,

Aaron Gera 0:37

hi, Alastair. How are you doing?

Alastair Cole 0:41

I'm very good. Delighted to be live with you today, my friend on the sales scoop and keen to get into what your takeaway is, your one piece of new business and sales advice would be for our audience. But before we get into that, I'd love to hear a little bit about you. You know, I've been following you closely for the last year or so, and it was fantastic to see the Ag finance hub getting some press in both the independent and in the standard just yesterday, and they had some very nice things to say about your stellar services. I think that was what the independent had to say. And I know the standard rates you in your app very highly to tell us a little bit about you and your your journey so far with AG, finance,

Aaron Gera 1:29

yeah. Well, obviously, first, thanks for your time today. Good too good to speak. And likewise, obviously you've been following what you've been doing and the insights and value you give out to people in our sector. I couldn't really say so, from a journey aspect, I couldn't really say I planned to end up doing what I'm doing. It's sort of just been a path of continuous flow. So I went to university, obviously, worked in a startup, left university, continued working at the startup, gained entrepreneurial skills, and so on and so forth. Did a fashion brand that did really well for a while, locked down here that tanked, got into digital marketing with some fantastic people that expanded, sort of my professional horizons. And I, you know, one thing led to another, and I found myself in the industry of tax and business finance. And then, you know, naturally, I think being on that, on that journey, I've always been an innovative person, wanting to do things differently, being outside the mold, and not just doing what's already been done. So I had this idea to look at, here's what I see about other key sorts of pain points or issues within our sector. How can I transform or mitigate those through something that I create and give back to businesses? And then, yeah, that sort of, you know, where the idea of a finance and technology group came from. Obviously, we've got an app. It's called a finance hub. It's the UK's first corporate tax and business finance app where companies can unlock and restore corporation tax, get refunds or reduce upcoming liabilities. Can see that you just shared some pictures of our sort of figma designs, pre, pre launch, and, yeah, so, you know, that sort of the progression was to create something that solves a problem and bring something of value to businesses in our sector. And we've got the app, which is great. We're also building proprietary tax technology to automate and strength and compliance within the tax reclaim system in particular are in the tax credits. And, look, it's been interesting, you know, it's, you know, holds on to a space where I know a lot about because a lot of my clients are in technology building, platforms, analytics tools, or carbon modeling systems, you know, so on, so forth. But of my technical element, I'm not a tech guy by nature. It's not what I've done or what I've studied or experienced. So for me, it's like nothing but fresh air, doing something completely different. But also I get to mix that in. There's something I'm really passionate about, which is obviously the corporate tax and business finance space. Yeah, it's been a really good journey so far. I went to the Web Summit in Lisbon a couple of months ago, which was a really good experience. And eye opening week, quite humbling to see just how advanced and capable technologists. And startups are, but yeah, just learning. And I think I've always been a learned person, all the information, and, you know, apply that information in unique ways, which is exactly what we're doing with ag finance.

So that's my two minutes of falling spiel. But yeah, that's my journey, you can say in a nutshell.

Alastair Cole 5:26

And I think that's indicative of a lot of kind of founders, journey where they work in different industries, sometimes in different teams, in order to soak up enough skills to have their kind of generalist base of expertise to to be able to build, you know, products and and going out to market, and, you know, as you've been in those different roles, yeah, well, I know from speaking to you, picked up expertise in sales and experience in sales, and that's what we want to focus in on today. And you know what? What is your, what's your sales group today? What is your one thing that you'd want to bring to the table, or share with with with our audience that they should be focusing on, that you'd be able to talk about a little

Aaron Gera 6:10

a bit. Yeah, sure. I think authenticity, for me, is the number one pillar you could say, or like, bit of advice or golden nugget I'd give to anybody who's doing anything remotely linked to sales or business development, or, you know, partnership building, or, you know, whatever other creative names people call it these days. I say authenticity, and I think it's something that's massively overlooked. You as a whole, to be honest, I think partly due to the self serving interests of doing sales and B, I think being so caught up in I've got this. Do you want this? Here's how I can help you. Or do you want to book a discovery call just sort of everything. Everything is so focused on the sale, where I think people forget to step back and, you know, approach it from a slightly different angle. And that's something that's always worked for me. And I'm not sure if that's because, you know, of my nature, naturally being somebody who's always, you know, not being afraid to share what I know or give something that can help others, and you know that in turn, and so on so forth, or if it's just luck, but I'd say I've carried that through pretty much everything that I've done, And it's paid dividend to me. I think it would, yeah, I think it would be very useful to anyone themselves to add a bit of authenticity into their into their bucket,

Alastair Cole 7:57

Before we get into how, because that's quite, it's quite a bit, it's a bit of a big emotional topic, you know, turning up as the real you, coming across as 100% as you and there's some natural tension there. Certainly people, you know, when you, when you, when you're working for a business and you're taking a salary, you're not one of the founders, there is a bit of tension there, before we get into that where, you know, where did you Where have you seen that working? Well, in terms of, like, mentors, or other areas of,

Aaron Gera 8:30

yeah, um, so in terms of, where did I get it from? I don't think it's necessarily something that you get from something or you like poach, I don't know some partly, I'd say it naturally came about my brother. He's an engineering construction wizard. He's a very, very authentic guy, just in all areas of life. And I remember when he joined our company a few years back. He was the highest performing business developer in the company, by a long way, and he wasn't even a sales guy. And when I took a look at what it was that attributed to that, it was his authenticity, you know, whether that was authenticity in building relationships that are meaningful, connections he'd made, giving people advice, going the extra mile, I would put a lot of the work that came through, or the Partnership for introductions was because they liked how he was. They had formed good relationships with him because of how he carried himself and how he, you know, interacted with those businesses and different people in industry, and so that was sort of, you know, one part of it that I've seen firsthand, and then the other is just experience. So, yeah, experience in doing and being that way. Myself and then seeing the results of it, but not in a way where set, I would say, almost like serendipity. And I can go into a bit more about how that interlinks and how that works, but yeah, that's what I'd say,

Alastair Cole 10:18

yeah. Well, yeah. Give us some more detail, what are your thoughts on the serendipity in that? Yeah,

Aaron Gera 10:23

sure. So lockdown hit, God I couldn't give you the dates, but God knows when we had lockdown. Prior to lockdown, obviously, I had a clothing run, and did some campaigns in New York. I really enjoyed it. I loved the creative element. I enjoyed the freedom of being a founder. When lockdown hit, obviously, investors pulled out fashion being a very capital intensive industry that couldn't continue. Nobody could really work. We, all you know, in our houses, this whole pandemic thing is going on. And I remember just having, like a thought about, okay, what are you interested in? What do you want to learn about? What are you passionate about? And I reached out to a number of orthopedic surgeons in the UK, but six in total, right? And I asked about, you know, can I learn more about the long term effects of stem cell therapy? And as I reached out to him. Just before I reached out to him, I also looked at his website and what he was doing, and I created a digital marketing plan. I said, I was very honest. I said, Look, you know, Mr. X, my aunt is thinking about having this. I'm interested in learning why. Here's a bit about me and my background. I was honest. I said, Look, to be completely transparent. I'm not a marketer. I don't have an agency, but this is what I'm looking to do, and which is what I can do if you're not in the market for this, or you're too busy, see attached my ebook that I've created. It will give you all the information to do what I will do for you, and you can keep it and that ebook was, was very good. If he had followed it, he could have done it himself completely. I also did want to learn about stem cells and, you know, all molecular and cellular generation. I was going to medicine at university until I changed my A levels in my just in my first bit of the first year. You know, when you're in school, whatever. And he came back to me, he said, let's jump on a call and we can have a conversation. And I remember in my email, I also mentioned, if you, if you want me to do it for you, I'll do it for free. I said, no cost, no problem. And I jumped on a zoom with him. We had a great, great conversation, and I began handling his digital marketing at no cost. Did that for a little while, and then it turned out he had a number of different clinics. I got one clinic. Had a second, I got a third, then got a retainer. Didn't know what a retainer was. Googled what's retainer seven agency. And that cycle sort of continued, start getting paid, getting more medical clients, so on, so forth. But that all all stemmed and inspired from the fact that in that moment, yes, I wanted to work with this person, I also wanted to learn from this person, but I didn't care. Is he going to put money in my pocket? And I didn't care if he'd be interested in doing those services with me. I actually wanted him to succeed, because I was passionate about his field, and I deeply admired and respect, respected what he was doing and what he was contributing. And I think if you take those two factors I'd put those, I think that came across not only in the email to him, but in our dialog when we were speaking together, and yet. So, you know, and when I did that, me surprised, because for me, it was like I didn't see this coming. But look what's come out of the fact of just being authentic, being honest and doing something genuine for, you know, the betterment of another, without any vested interest. And that went on for a while. Ended up having a, you know, a share agreement with him, and I still work them to this date. His name is Mr. Fahad ATA in the Genesis autobiography recently was awarded a global orthopedic surge of the year. That relationship all came down and built upon just being authentic. And, you know, I was saying earlier, you know, you know, where do you pick that up from? So I've got that sort of feedback loop fight from that experience with the doctor, with the surgeon, and continuing that way of being, are you not being attached to the outcome, you know, being very, sort of laissez faire with my approach of services and what I can do for people. And then, you know, I got, I got speaking with a, you know, a very, very good corporate lawyer, and we sort of entered into the. Tax sphere together, that the journey that I described earlier has led me to AG finance hub, right? If it wasn't for that moment of authenticity and being genuine and having that sort of organic value exchange with that man, that lawyer, wouldn't ever give an opportunity to go into prison for them, nor would ever end up in this field. I think you see a lot whereby you know sales people or business developers. It's like, let's do a discovery call, or here's a free whatever, and then they upsell you massively. Or you get some people, and it's like, especially in the services based business, they can help you unless you're signing a contract or paying the fees they want. They're not going to help you. And look, I'm not saying people don't deserve to get paid for what they do, absolutely they do, but I think if you truly, you know if you're good at what you do, and you truly care what you do, and you can add value if you communicate that in an efficient, performant and honest way to another business owner, they will see that. And any smart business person would register, okay, this guy or this woman is adding value to what I'm doing. Let me see what they have to say, right? And I think that allows you to sort of get yourself in front, in front of who you need to and then after that, the stage is yours. You've been created that opportunity of, you know what people say, getting your foot in the door, or getting a child, what have you not, and it's built upon. Okay, this guy's saying to me that he didn't care about using or not. He told me what he knows. And he also said, By the way, if you don't want to pay me, we don't want to take my services. We don't have a market for happy days. You know, here's what I know that seems genuine because it's like, and I think that also slightly confuses people, because they're like, Well, if he's telling me what he knows for free, and I can do it myself, I also know he has something of value that he can that I'd be paying him for. What more can he give me? What more can this person exchange with me? And I think that that's missing. That's missing a lot of cells, a lot of times, not only the way people sell, but the sales style of people as well. Yeah. So you know, that would be sort of, you know, how I've learned it, from doing it and seeing the results and then having, like, good role models, you know, the lawyers that I worked with, obviously very authentic. I want to make that chap the doctors and surgeons have really had the pleasure of working with very, very authentic. Obviously, I have to be right, very emotionally in tune, very switched on, very calm, very caring, compassionate individuals. And then, you know, first hand, they will see in my family sphere, you know, I'd say, you know, both my parents are very authentic people, and my brother, especially, you know, he it's weird. It's like the top sales guy in his own way. He's not a salesman. It naturally just comes to him. And, yeah, I think looking at that and observing that, and taking, taking that data in and absorbing it and then reapplying it as, yeah, has worked. Has worked wonders for me. And I would say categorically, what I'm doing now would not be in place or existing if I hadn't done what I was doing or had that moment of, you know, authenticity with that, with that surgeon.

Alastair Cole 18:24

So that's really nice where you describe working with that surgeon, where you're doing something without expecting anything in return, sharing your expertise, taking your time, it's not a hard sell. So that makes sense. What were you? Were you doing it differently previously? Then you know, in years before that, were you kind of selling in an inauthentic way? What? How was it different when you felt like it was, you were more inauthentic? Yeah.

Aaron Gera 18:48

Well, look, I'm only 28 years old, right? I haven't had tons and tons of sales experience. I went to uni, worked in a startup that didn't start. It wasn't a sales role. It was creating a business from the ground up, generating funding, setting up operations so it wasn't a sales role. Thereafter, my startup, my fashion brand, wasn't a salesy role. I've always sort of done things which I am passionate about, and B sort of intuitively feels like this is what I should be doing. And I think when you're passionate about something, and you're following your intuition, and you're doing something that you care about. I don't think sales comes into it. That's part of the disconnect between a lot of people in sales jobs, they may love their jobs. Is it what they are truly, truly passionate about, or are they there because career has led them there, and then they have other commitments whereby they need to have a paycheck to pay for their rent, mortgage, kids, what have you not. And you know, shifting it back one step further, I think authenticity can also be applied to, you know, how you live your life, right? I believe if people pursue. What they were passionate about and what they truly wanted to do, no in this one life that they have, they wouldn't necessarily be, not saying they wouldn't, obviously, well, everybody did that. There wouldn't be anybody with jobs, and, you know, we'd all collapse. But I think not enough people are authentic with themselves about what it is they want in life and what they're passionate about. And I think it starts like that for me anyway, going through that journey and doing the things that I've wanted to do, to do, has allowed me to do something that I'm always passionate about, and I've never had to have or do those sort of hard sales if you were Yeah, and look, even with what I'm doing now, yes, I have a job. I work in a startup, you know, albeit it's my own one, I still have responsibilities that every other employee, or, you know, would have. The difference is my, perhaps, style and approach is unique because I'm passionate about it and it's what I want to be doing. And I've always been and I've always been like that. I think that that's important for anybody to explore, as opposed to, I'm in a job, I've got KPIs, I've got a target, sell, sell, sell, hit my target, get a bonus, and that cycle repeats.

Alastair Cole 21:17

And that's the essence here. The essence here is that if we, if everybody, could be as lucky or as driven as you, and only chase something that they really care about, then sales is easier, right? But the truth is that people end up like you, say, organically, in a particular role. They enveloped a company that they haven't founded. They're a small cog in a huge machine, and their job is to go and sell widgets, X, Y and Z. And unsurprisingly, they can't, they can't get excited about it, because it's not there. They didn't build those widgets. It isn't their company. It isn't their vision. And I think that's what, that's what leads to the or the inauthenticity in sales, where people are, you know, trying to, trying to sell something. We don't really care about it. They're not really on board and obviously their salary, right, their mortgage, their food and their bills are tied to that, so they have to go for it, but they don't really, they're not really on the bus, and that leads to that tension. So you're, you're very lucky that you're in a position where you've been chasing that, and actually, you know, it would be fantastic if we could, you know, roll the the kind of job salt shaker of society, and everybody ended up doing exactly the thing that they were really passionate about. You know, I'm not sure everything would get sorted, but I'm sure a lot of people would be very happy about that. The truth is, it takes a lot of gumption to find something and start off down your own road, and not everybody can have that liberty. So, you know, it makes sense, if you really care about it, then it's a lot easier. And I found that when I was working at helping to grow digital marketing agencies and growing them and then being acquired, you know, I was effectively selling the services of those agencies. And I remember one, one moment, Aaron, where, you know, it was a networking event, and ostensibly we were there to sell or to engage buyers. And I remember, you know, having to finish my beer and kind of drag myself away from the bar to go and meet people like, and it was almost like, right, what's, what's this agency, strap line, right? Okay, I'm gonna, that's what I'm gonna trot out. And it just felt completely wrong. Yeah,

Aaron Gera 23:40

yeah. Look, I agree and I agree. Then I think you said something earlier about being incredibly lucky. But is it luck? Though? I would strongly disagree. I think it's a choice. I think people have the choice. Everyone has a choice to do something that they want to do or they don't want to do. I think part of it is courage, and I think society is designed in a way to knock people's confidence and we put each other down, and, you know, compare ourselves and so on and so forth. But I think the choice is there for everybody. I think bravery and courage and grit and determination is something that you can acquire. But ultimately, you know, it's a choice. And you know, even in that exchange with when, you know, with the surgeon, yes, eventually I did get paid, but even in that moment, it's like I was doing that for me. I wasn't doing that in terms of somebody else or another company. I was doing something that I actually wanted to do. And you know, even up until, till, till today, with, you know, the businesses that I have, most of the sort of model that I operate in, is always value driven. You don't pay me anything, or our company anything, until you get a tangible benefit, right? I've got clients at the minute. It's really, really, really good. Members who we could have a three or four year engagement, and in the second or third year, I'll wave at the feet and say, You know what? You know. You know. And that's just because I look a lot like I like working with you. I like your business. I have earned some money from doing this, you know, I always want to form a long term relationship, and I've done that a few times. When it comes to renewing the engagement, the client says, right, let's do five years again. Let's do four years again. Most people wouldn't think to do that, because they just focus on the here and now. What is the immediate gratification or benefit to me of getting that retainer? But I think if you take a step back and look at it from a sort of different lens. There's a lot more to gain by being authentic and helping and you know, another person out, or being sort of interested, or vesting your interest in another person's success, you know, that goes a long way. And I think that's missing quite a lot in our generation, and for sales specific, sales specific, I think a lot of the sales advice you see online, on Google or YouTube, it's very regurgitated. It's very saturated. And you've probably, you've got much more experience than I've Alastair, you've been on a sales call with somebody, and, you know, they're doing the typical, you know, get the person to say yes. It was passed throughout the call, because that will prime them subconsciously to say yes to the service. Because I had one of them the other week. You know, at the end of the call, the guy goes, just quickly puts a piece of paper, and he goes, Is your name? Aaron Gayla, yes. Your date of birth, 11. You know, this is your email. Do you do this? And I knew what you were doing. I found it funny. I'm a troll. Alastair, so paper, I said in what I said in any capacity, do you think I'm stupid? And he goes, No. I was like, that's the answer to, if we, if you and I, are going to work together, honestly, I worked in the guy's business, and, you know, he had a good company. But for me, it was just like, I understand you're trying to be a good salesman and you're trying to make yourself better, but the context and the way in which you applied it shows to me, I am just a number in your sales target, or I'm just you've treated me the same as you would every other person that you know. I think you know, there's a lot to take away from speaking differently and being authentic,

Alastair Cole 27:30

yeah, and I think for people watching live or watching and recording back, you know, the big takeaway here is, if you can't, if you're not running your own company, you haven't found something you don't, it's not born from you. Then you know the way? It's harder because you're trying to chase immediate sales, and actually the way to get around it as a seller, a founder seller, is to either invest yourself more in the product and your buyers do more research with the buyers to understand how that product can help them, because that can help you feel empathetically closer to them, like it can actually change their world, but also just to take your time a bit more right authentic. And I think that's where authenticity is, is, is left on the side, because there isn't time to be authentic. And actually, if everybody slowed down in sales and you spent more time with a human, then, then that would go. So look, thanks for that. It's great chatting with you. If people know, if anybody wants to go and download your app, they can currently get it at AG finance hub.com which is available for on the Play Store and and as an apple download as well. If anybody wanted to talk to you about your views on authentic sense selling or ag finance, how could they get into

Aaron Gera 28:53

they could drop me a message on LinkedIn. You get spammed a lot, unless you're on LinkedIn. If it's authentic, and I think it's genuine, I'll give it a glance. Or, you know, if somebody wanted to talk or authenticity, I think you'd be a good personal Alastair that I've known you for, like, nearly a year. We've had a lot of conversations right from the moment that we engage with one another. Your approach is very authentic. You gave me loads of advice on, you know, creating content, marketing, sales structures, you know, Squarespace for the website. Do this. Your Link's not right here. Let me review this for you. And you know, at the moment, you and I, we don't have a scope of services or contractual work and relationship right in place, but I know that will happen at some point in the near future, because enough value and authenticity has been exchanged whereby you've given a lot to me. From your years of experience, you've shown interest in my journey, in my product, in my business. And you haven't been like, yeah, I can give you this person cost you x, or if you do this, I should have to do Y. You know, I'm sure there are loads of paid services you can offer me, but there have been numerous occasions and events where you have repeatedly demonstrated that you have an interest. You're authentic in your approach, and that's reinforced by each time you do it. When I look at it I think, okay, this person actually gives to SS, he cares. And, you know, he's not in it for, you know, a quick buck or to earn a, you know, earn a few quid. So yeah, on that note, I'd say, If not me, I'd think, I think Cole would be a great chat to speak to about what they just do.

Alastair Cole 30:45

Well, that's very kind of you. You mentioned our actual Squarespace and website there. And if anybody's struggling as a founder with sales, you could go to our website and download the latest white paper on the Empowered founder. Seller, it's uplifting. Partnership with com forward slash white paper, it's free. We were just giving that away at the beginning of 2025. Our thoughts on five areas. Our next live show a week today, it'll be Kieran Gill and I talking about from seed to series A how technology businesses need to demonstrate growth to investors in order to close the next level of funding Tuesday, 28th and midday. And if you're interested in catching any of the other shows, you can head over to sales scoop.com and see all our past shows. That's us. We're out of time for today. All that's left for me is to say, thank you very much. Aaron, thanks for your time. Likewise.

Aaron Gera 31:44

Alastair, thank you very much, and there's always a pleasure to speak with you. Yeah,

Alastair Cole 31:49

you too. Okay, thanks. Thanks, Aaron, thanks everybody for watching. See you next time. Bye, bye. You.